Photograph of my Sourdough, from my most recent book Food For Thought, taken by Laura Edwards reproduced with Kind permission from Kyle Books.
I am often asked for a basic sourdough recipe. I am in so many ways I am reluctant to give a recipe because a recipe in itself does not guarantee a good loaf. There are so many variables that affect a good sourdough bread, from the kind of flour, to the amount it is handled, to the weather on the day. These are things that I cannot account for in a recipe.
Baking a beautiful loaf is about more than just the practical external factors. To make a really great sourdough you need the ability to judge the dough; to know it, understand it, feel it and instinctively correct or modify your technique on any given day. This takes practice, time, understanding and patience. The ability to judge these factors and allow for them is what I teach on my sourdough courses. But more than that I teach people to understand sourdough. Once you understand sourdough then you will always bake a great loaf.
That said, nothing gets you off to a better start at the weekend that a warm crusty sourdough loaf fresh from the oven and there are many bakers who read this site too far away to attend a course. So this is my basic sourdough recipe; it is based on the French country Pain de Levain that I grew up baking in the village bakery in the South of France, and is timed so as to be ready to take out of the oven on a Saturday morning to bake.
A traditionally French shaped sourdough boule. Allow yourself about3 –4 hours for the dough to be mixed, folded and shaped ready to place in the coldest part of the fridge to prove overnight.(If you are new to bread making, you can, instead of shaping the dough and putting it into a banneton, grease a 2lb bread tin liberally with butter, let the dough rise in it overnight in the fridge and then bake as per the recipe instructions below.)
A large mixing bowl
A round cane banneton
2 clean tea towels
A baking stone or a Dutch oven or La Cloche
A large heatproof pan, a sharp knife or ‘lame’ to slash the dough with
Ingredients:
300g water
100g sourdough leaven (‘starter’)*
100g of stoneground organic wholemeal flour
400g organic strong white flour
10g fine sea salt mixed with 15g of cold water
25g rice flour mixed with 25g of stone ground white flour (for dusting your banneton)
Semolina to dust the bottom of the baking surface
Makes 1 loaf
Directions:
Late afternoon
Mix
In a large bowl whisk your water and starter and mix well. Add all the flour and mix until all the ingredients come together into a large ball.
Cover with a clean damp cloth and let the dough rest on the side in the kitchen for between 30 minutes and 2 hours – this what bakers call Autolyse
Fold
Add the salt mixed with the water and dimple your fingers into the dough to allow the salty water and salt to distribute evenly throughout the dough. Leave for 10 mutes.
Next lift and fold your dough over, do a quarter turn of your bowl and repeat three more times. Repeat 3 times at 30 minute intervals with a final 15 minute rest at the end.
Shape
Shape the dough lightly into a ball then place into a round banneton dusted with flour (If you don’t have a banneton then use a clean tea towel dusted with flour inside a colander). Dust the top with flour, then cover with a damp tea-towel
Prove
Leave your dough to one side until it is 50% bigger then transfer to the fridge , and leave to prove there for 8 – 12 hours.
Bake the following morning
The next morning preheat your oven to 220°C for at least 30 minutes before you are ready to bake. Place your cloche or baking stone in the oven and a large pan of boiling water underneath (or use a Dutch oven). The hydration helps form a beautiful crust.
Once the oven is up to full heat, carefully remove the baking stone from the oven, taking care not to burn yourself dust with a fine layer of semolina, which stops the bread sticking, then put your dough onto the baking stone and slash the top with your blade. This decides where the bread will tear as it rises. Bake for an hour.
Turn the heat down to 180°C (and remove the lid if you are using a Dutch oven) and bake for another 10 -15 minutes. You need to choose just how dark you like your crust but I suggest that you bake until it is a dark brown – it tastes much better.
Storage
Sourdough is really best left to cool completely before slicing and is even better if left for a day to let the full flavour develop.
Once your sourdough has cooled, store in a linen or cotton bread bag, or wrapped in a clean tea towel.
Note: if you don’t like a crunchy crust on your sourdough bread, simply wrap your bread in a clean tea towel whilst it is still warm.
- * To make 100g of leaven, use 2 tablespoons of sourdough starter, 50g of filtered water and 50g of strong white flour, mix well and leave, covered on the side in the kitchen in the morning. It will be lively and bubbly and ready to bake with in the evening.
- More advanced recipes and tips are available to members of the sourdough club, and a very in depth explanation is covered on our sourdough courses.
- For all your baking equipment needs I recommend Bakerybits.
Seems like a very accessible recipe. One question, after proving overnight, how long do you need to leave the dough outside of the fridge before baking, assuming pre-heated oven? Or can it go in straight away?
I bake it straight from the fridge.
Very helpful…thanks indeed Vanessa
I have made this once and am making it again tonight. I found the dough did not rise in the fridge and I kept it at room temp for several hours after that when it did rise. How much should it rise before baking? Thanks
It needs to rise by about 50% – try starting a but earlier in the day if you are not having the time to let it rise.
Thank you
Does it make any difference autolysing just the flour and water before adding the starter?
Hi Graham, Sometimes if I have a heavy flour, such as a whole rye or wholegrain stoneground one then I find this is a useful technique.
Im gearing up to try my first Sourdough loaf using your recipe, tips etc. I would like to know if the final prove in the fridge 8-12 hours can be extended. I’m a shift worker and having a looser timing schedule would really help
Thank You
Annie
Hi Annie,
Many people prove their sourdough for much longer. Generally the longer the prove the more sour. In fact I visited a bakery just last week who prove for 17 hours in the fridge. Just check the temperature of your fridge is between 3-5 degrees as a warmer fridge temperature might result in over proving.
Vanessa
Do you put the stone in when you turn on the oven, or do you put it in after the oven is heated, and put the dough to bake on the stone that will then heat up as the bread bakes?
Yes pre heat the stone.
Always love a new sourdough recipe, as they all are different and it can take a while to perfect making a loaf. A question I have is about the wetness of the starter, some recipes I have tried end up too wet, as I think they are intended for a dryer starter. I am now experimenting with less water to flour ratio in my starter but was wondering what you would suggest..
I have just made a loaf from you basic recipe and it has to be the best one I’ve ever made!
It has the most delicious flavour and the crust is to die for. I found it hard to slice, so I’m wrapping it in a tea towel and will try again tomorrow.
Thank you for for the recipe. I live in Australia so cannot get to any of your courses unfortunately.
Janet – what a wonderful message. I’d love to see a photo .. and I have the Sourdough club pages if you are on Facebook.
Vanessa
x
That’s great news that there’s a FB page. I too am in Australia and beginning my sourdough journey. My first 2 rounds didn’t work…one didn’t rise, the other stuck dreadfully to my floured tea towel in the colander, so I’m about to go for a third try. I’ve been told the mother gets better with age, so fingers crossed. Thankyou for sharing difficult insights across the globe.
Hi Vanessa! Many thanks for this recipe which I’ve used with good results. Just for clarification, do you mean to bake for an hour at 220 degrees and then a further 10-15 minutes at 180 degrees, 85-90 minutes in total?
Sorry it is basically an hour in the cloche and then the last 10 – 15 minutes is really about getting the crust to the level of darkness you like.
The initial high temperature is about getting the maximum oven spring. The lower 180 is time to cook the inside of the loaf and the last 10 – 15 is about the final crumb colour.
Does that help?
Vx
Just the business – many thanks!
I am a sourdough newbie but managed to produce a very acceptable boule using your recipe. My 17-year-old daughter said it tasted like the artisan bread we enjoyed on Gozo earlier this year.
I made my own starter from organic stone-milled flour and used 200g, but adjusted the dry flour and water to compensate. I was very dubious about proving the dough in the fridge but you obviously know what you are talking about! Many thanks for a simple and easy-to-follow recipe with a delicious result!
I live in a small NZ town with no decent bakery, so have been baking my own sourdough for the last eight odd years. Stumbled across this recipe and gave it a go.
Remarkably easy to follow, and stupendously good results (baked in dutch oven). The following times I have paid less attention to the timings except for baking times, and the result is always what I’d call the perfect loaf; crusty, fragrant, great crumb and delicious.
Thanks so much
Hi Steve,
What a lovely message. Thank you. I’d love to see a photo if you fancy sending one?
Best Vanessa
Just got into making bread at home and have now discovered sourdough and was wondering if instead of baking in an oven if it can be made in a breadmaker?
You can make sourdough in the bread maker. I used to use a bread maker about 8 years ago when I have three children under the age of 4!
Pop all the ingredients in the maker and mix. Put the timer on and delay of 5 hours.. you should find your bread maker will do the rest.
Hope that helps.
Hello, can I prove for 4 hours in a warm room instead of the fridge. Am I right in saying that you don’t really knead this bread very much? Thanks.
Yes it is a no knead technique, and yes a normal room temperature is fine.
Hello! I tried this recipe a while ago and it turned out really good. I’ll do it again tomorrow — this time I’ll use my cloche (first time it was on a baking stone) — but the question I have is, do I still need a pan of boiling water if I use a cloche? Wouldn’t the cloche lid prevent the steam from entering in?
I know that in this recipe it says I still need that, but on BakeryBits.co.uk I found another of your recipes (the Friday night sourdough) where there is no mention of using boiling water or ice cubes to create steam — hence my question.
Hi Louise,
Gosh no .. the steam is only if you use a baking stone. The cloche teams the steam from the bread as it bakes, so no need for a pan of water.
Happy baking.
Vanessa
x
My way of getting a really good crust is to spray the loaf all over with water using a fine plant spray – after slashing. It never fails.
Hello again,
Just received my starter and wondering if I use 100g of the actual starter (after the 3 feeds) or do I need to make a leaven with it for the basic recipe please? Thanks very much
Leaven basically is a 100% hydration starter. Provided your starter has approximately the same proportions of flour as the leaven, it won’t make any difference.
After battling to get an open crumb this method was a god send ! Simple and easy but gives a wonderful light open crumb . Thank you !
Hi Naomi,
Lovely to hear!
Vanessa
x
Can’t wait to try this. Although I’m confused – with every other recipe I’ve read says during the autolyse stage you aren’t supposed to add the salt, as it dries all the moisture out of the dough and makes it stiff. Is this true or false?
Hi Jenna,
You are correct. A true Autolyse adds the salt in just after the Bulk fermentation.
Kind regards
Vanessa
Thanks! One more question. Is it okay to let the bread proof in the fridge longer than 12 hours? Maybe 15-16?
I have to say that this is one easy-to-follow and foolproof recipe. I have been trying to make proper sourdough for ages, and this (combined with La Cloche) have given me *exactly* what I was looking for in a loaf. I was worried that it was looking a little wet, but it turned out perfectly. Thank you so much!
Hi Paul,
That is great to hear. There is also a Facebook page called The Sourdough Club where lots of people swap photos and information .. so if you have got any pictures to share we’d love to see them.
Best
Vanessa
The recipe looked correct and it turned out perfect. Thanks
Bake for 1 hour at 220?C the an extra 15 mins at 180?C?
Just checking: Most other recipes I’ve used have timings around 35/45mins. My attempts have always passed the ‘Tap’ test at these timings so your’s caught my eye. Does the crust just get thicker and thicker the longer the baking time?
I’ll give it ago but just wanted some newbie reassurance.
Bake for 1 hour at 220?C then an extra 15 mins at 180?C?
Just checking: most other recipes I’ve used have timings around 35/45mins. My attempts have always passed the ‘Tap’ test at these timings so your’s caught my eye. Does the crust just get thicker and thicker the longer the baking time?
I’ll give it a go but just wanted some newbie reassurance.
Hi Ian, yes the instructions are correct.. but please use a cloche or a Dutch oven. You can of course bake it for slightly less time, and this is fine, but I like my crusts and I was brought up on bread that came out of a wood fired oven, so I love dark thick crusts and a soft moist bouncy crumb… but it’s personal preference.
Happy baking.
Vanessa
Just used this recipe after 2 previous failed attempts with others, it worked perfectly thank you!
As Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall might himself say… https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/may/10/hugh-fearnley-whittingstall-recipes-sourdough
I just made this with my three-week-old sourdough starter and it’s probably the best bread I’ve ever made. Previous problems — crust too light, crust too tough, crumb too cakey, crumb too wet — all gone away. The crust was perfect, crusty and crackly. I cooked it (and mixed it and proved it) in my Lekue silicone bread maker and after just 45 minutes @ 220°C it was deep brown so I didn’t bake any further. This is definitely one I will do again.
What a lovely comment! Thank you for sharing .. happy baking.
Hi
Your sourdough starter was a 1:1 mix of All purpose flour and water or it had any portion of whole wheat flour. I want to try this recipe nut I have a 100% hydration starter with equal. Quantities pf dloir and water.
Can you please suggest me.
any 100% hydrated starter will be fine. IN fact any starter .. just make sure you make a leaven!
Afternoon Vanessa. I had a go at your basic recipe and produced a good looking loaf. I was trying your recipe before investing in a Cloche. The dough was proved over night in a colander as I don’t have a round banneton. Once baking was finished the crust was very brown and difficult to slice and more worrying the crumb was ‘rubbery’. As far as I know I followed your instructions to the letter. I should tell you I bake on a non-stick heated flat baking tray. Any idea what caused the crumb so rubbery?
Regards
Chris
I imagine you used a high protein flour, or that you underpriced your loaf. Try to use a 12 – 13 % protein flour, and make sure you give your loaf time to prove.
Thanks Vanessa for the advice. Purchased the lower protein flour you suggested and the next bake was certainly better.
Hello Vanessa
I’m new to all this and have just begun making my first starter! I would like to find a fairly simple recipe, like the one above, as I hope to make sourdough bread a regular part of my life.
In this recipe, the dough is mixed straight from the fridge, but on another site (cultures for health.com) it says that once starter has been put in the fridge it goes in to ‘hibernation’ and needs to be fed again and used about 4 hours after feeding when it’s at its most active. Does that not really matter?
By the way, I am venturing in to sourdough as I have IBS and am told that the sourdough bread is much easier to digestion. So, would it be ok if I use spelt flour instead of wholemeal?
Kind Regards
Lucy
Hi Lucy,
Lovely that you have found the site and sourdough. If you read the recipe the dough is not mixed straight form the fridge. It does finish proving in the fridge, and it is fine to bake it straight from the fridge, once it is fully proved.
You will also find that longer slower overnight fermentation will help make your sourdough more digestible. There are several articles on the website, including a recent one about spelt and another about sourdough digestibility in relation to IBS.
Hope that helps.
Happy baking.
Vanessa
Made this with my month old starter, which I feed on stoneground rye and plain white flour, and it turned out fantastically! Previously I made the mistake of starting off trying to make really high hydration sourdough breads but decided to try something easier in the end. I let this rise in parchment paper in a tea towel lined colander and then baked it in a preheated Lodge cast iron combo cooker for just under 25 minutes wuth the lid on and then at a lower temp for around another half an hour. To avoid scorching the bottom I put a layer of dried chickpeas on the bottom of the Dutch oven for the bread to rest on. For the last 5 minutes of baking I took the bread out of the Dutch oven and let it go the rest of the way on the oven rack. The oven spring was perfect, and the crust turned out just how I like it – fairly tough, but not too thick and with a nice chewy texture biting into it. This is definitely a keeper! Thank you! 🙂
Lovely to hear!
Happy baking.
Vanessa
x
If I was out and about and wanted to use my breadmaker to knead the dough, can I add ALL the ingredients including the salt solution and then leave it to rise while out. Then I would shape it for the banneton when I get back and leave to rise over night?
Hi Cathy,
It’s been a long time since I baked sourdough in a bread maker .. but I used to work long hours in the city .. in another life .. so as I recall all I did was stir all the ingredients together and transferred to a bread maker. I then set the bread maker on an 8 hour delay. My bread maker has a 5 hour wholemeal setting. I seem to remember that it produced a great family sourdough loaf. I’d mix at 6pm and the bread would be ready at 7am the following morning filling her house with freshly baked sourdough bread smell – just in time for breakfast. You would, however have to check the size of your bread maker and adjust accordingly. Do let me know how you get on!
Vanessa
Hi Vanessa,
I’ve just started a total white flour “starter” as my son is not keen on rye and wholemeal flours. What a pity!
For your basic sourdough recipe can I make the loaf with 500g white flour rather than 100g wholemeal and 400g white?
Thank you.
What a lovely site!
yes you can .. but it might change the feel if the dough which is designed to allow beginner to have a dough that is relatively easy to handle. .. as the hydration is tempered by the wholemeal. which absorbs more of the water .. so if you find the dough hard to handle then just reduce the water by 15 grams.
Hi Venessa,
I attempted the recipe and when I left it to autolyse for 2 hours, it turned into a slightly gooey batter slightly thicker than fish and chips batter. I’m trying to figure out what I did wrong.
About the leaven… I keep my starter in the fridge. Do I feed it, leave it out for a few hours to bubble then scoop 2 tablespoons out, to be combined with the 50g of flour and 50g water for the leaven? or can I use 2 tablespoons of the starter straight from the fridge for the leaven?
I live in Singapore and it’s pretty warm in the kitchen, could I have left the dough to autolyse too long?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Looking forward to making some of your awesome looking breads!
Hi – I am guessing it might be a number of factors. Yes temperature is one reason, flour type is another. Try and make sure your scales are accurate too. It think it is more likely to be your flour .. but it is hard to tell from here… I do have a few Students I can ask in Asia, so let me know and I will put you in touch to find out what they are using.
I think you’re right! Tried a different brand of bread flour and it worked great!
Fuss free recipe with dope results. Definitely recommend it! Thank you
Happy baking Juan. x
Hey, I’ve tried this recipe three times. The bread comes out very tasty but its always rather dense and the crust is very hard. Do you know where i might be going wrong?
Thanks so much, you’re a great resource ?
I suspect it might be the flour you are using. Are you in the UK?
Try using a roller milled flour to begin with as your main flour. Mulino Marino ( see shop on my website) 00 is wonderful. Also Doves Farm flour – it the green bag of strong bread four .. all about 13% protein. I mis that with some local organic stoneground flour for best flavour and added nutritional benefit.
I understand your recipe but I have arthritic hands and cannot knead by hand but have a machine with a dough hook, can you give me any hints, tips please.
Please don’t mix or knead .. at all. A long slow fermentation will take care of this. If you email me I will send you a no knead technique ..the gluten will develop anyway. I promise.
Foolproof recipe that I use as the base for all my sourdough baking. I made another loaf using your recipe ( subbed out some white for spelt flour and added pumpkin seeds) this morning and it’s sat on the side now cooling and cracking away. I’m impatiently waiting to be able to cut it. Thanks Vanessa!
Thank you .. I am smiling .. what a lovely comment. Nothing I love more than to hear that someone has been inspired to bake sourdough. welcome to a whole new world.
Vanessa
x
Well you made it so simple! I just wish I could post a photo. I have another I’ve just taken out of the oven, it’s a little lighter on the crust than I would like but sadly my bread knife just isn’t up to the task of the deep brown extra crunchy crusts. Do you have any knife recommendations?
Thanks again
X
Hi, I made my first sourdough today, the basic recipe, but I found it hard to shape as it was a little wet, as in, sticky. It cooked fine and looked really good when it was baked. Very rustic looking which is appealing but I was wondering if the dough is supposed to be so wet? My local shop is a coop and I just used their branded flour as I didn’t have another choice. I wondered if the flour was an issue.
Sounds like a flour issue to me. Did you use any wholemeal?
Yes, I made it to the recipe. Since posting I have made this a few times and I reduced the water by 20ml and that helped. Either way, it turned out beautiful and I haven’t bought bread since. My family really love it too. Thanks for the great resource. I want to start experimenting with other recipes but I have been a bit afraid, I know silly, but I’m starting to get a little bit more confident. Thanks again!
Hi Vanessa
I’m so excited about giving this sourdough in the next few days, once my starter is ready to use. I’m just wondering what you would advise if I haven’t got a Dutch oven or La Cloche? Would I need to adjust the timing?
Thank you.
I use a big, lidded, ceramic-type casserole dish and it works great.
Hi Vanessa – recipe looks delicious. What is the recipe for the sourdough starter?! Thanks, Victoria
Hi Vanessa, how important is the oven temperature for sourdough to rise? Or is it all about the dough? My oven is quite old and I suspect might be losing heat and my bread comes our flat which makes me wonder if the two are related.
Su do use a cloche .. it really makes difference. It will even out the heat and make the most of the heat you have.
Hi,
This may be a really silly questions but, does this recipe need a 500g or 1kg banneton to prove in?
Thanks!
Dani
SOrry – not sure if my previous comments posted or not.
I was wondering if the 500g or 1kg bannetons are better for this recipe?
Thanks
I use 1kg ones. It is the weight of the dough that counts.
Hello,
Thank you for the lovely – easy to follow recipe. Only question I have is when you say “cover with a damp tea-towel” do you mean that the damp cloth is actually touching the dough or is only covering the proving basket/bowl? From my experience the towel sticks a little to the dough if in contact (even when dusted with the flour)… Thanks!
Hi Mary – your bowl needs to be big enough so the towel does not touch the dough. It is there to stop a kin for forming, especially on a dry day or centrally heated house.
Vanessa
Hi Vanessa, after stumbling upon your website a while back I have been wanting to try to make my own sourdough. I finally ordered a fresh starter from Bakery Bits which I revived and then this weekend I tried to make my first breads using your basic sourdough recipe. I used Gilchester flour (wholemeal wheat and organic white) and a La Cloche but although my starter was very active the bread ended up being quite flat each time (no oven spring it seems like). The taste and the crust were really great though! I would love to be able to get more of boule shape but have no idea what I’m doing wrong. Do you know what the issue could be?
Many thanks! Floor
Hi Floor – you sound like you are most definitely over proving your bread. Gilchesters is very active and flavoursome and full on as it is full of nutrition and enzymes .. please speed up fermentation times.
Vanessa
Thank you for such a simple and yet fabulous recipe….cannot fault it. 1st time I have tried a sourdough and so pleased with the end result. Wish I could post a pic
Dee, what a lovey comment. Hope you enjoyed your loaf and are now hooked!
Best Vanessa
Hi, thanks for this recipe, it’s my first sourdough and going well. I am confused by the baking timings however. I am using a thick metal ‘baking stone’ and I am sure the hour at 220 + 15 mins at 180 is far too long (fan oven on bread setting with max steam being used). I have tried 220 for about 25 min and then 15 – 20 mins at 180. The bread is pretty good, but with a very thick and chewy crust. Can you give your thoughts. How would I get the same loaf, but with thinner crust and slightly less chewy crust?
Hi Stuart,
My recipe uses a cloche. This is so you get the curst as you describe above.
Hope that helps.
Vanessa
Made a sourdough starter and fed it over the last two weeks. Followed your recipe this weekend. It’s probably the best bread I’ve ever made. Thank you x
I’m going to try this recipe as my first attempt at sourdough. I’ve bought a 2lb capacity banneton so should I increase the measurements by 50% or will the 1lb dough be ok in the banneton?
Thanks
Brenda
It will be fine.
Hi Vanessa, I make a loaf of bread every day using your recipe on the internet – it is foolproof and delicious. I now have your book and I can honestly say it is the best cookbook I have ever had – thank you. I have one query though. With reference to the excess starter that accumulates every day, should I keep this in the fridge or leave it on the counter with the starter? By the way, the digestive biscuits (recipe in your book) using the excess sourdough are delicious!
Hi Diana, What a lovely comment. Thank you.
Keep your starter in the fridge. When you refresh you just use a spoon, the rest is discard, so perhaps keep this in another opt unit you are ready to use it. Your refreshed pot sits on the side for 8 hours to really get going — then you use it to make a leaven .. then like cinderella the party is over and it’s back in the fridge.
Happy baking.
Vanessa x
Thanks for your reply. I have been keeping my starter out of the fridge as I tend to bake every day. In the morning I use 40g of it to build the levain; refresh the starter with 40g starter, 40g white/rye flour and 40g water and any starter that is left I put in a separate “excess” pot. This excess I have started to use in your recipes where you refer to “unrefreshed 1 week old” starter. Is it OK to add to it every day and should I keep this excess pot in the fridge until needed? As a matter of interest to other readers, I also add about 5g of diastatic malt to your recipe above and tweaked the flour to 350g white, 100 wholewheat and 45g rye – all organic stoneground. The bread is perfect and has a wonderful flavour. By the way, your article on gut microbes is so interesting and informative – thank you. Diana x
I’m trying out ur recipe….am taking it out from the fridge & into the hot oven..
So anxious of the outcome…
Use some potato flour to dust you banneton with. It also sounds like you are over prooving.
Did you refresh your starter and the make leaven?
Yes, I refresh it every day. And I mixed a table spoon of it with 50g flour and 50g water. After mixing with flour I leave it for about 2.5 hours before I add salt mixture. After folding this 3 times I prove in the fridge over night or about 12 hours at about 4degrees.